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Health vs Mobility - Free runner nerf and Thug buff


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What category does this suggestion apply to? (Map, Addons, Discord, Forums, Other): Game balancing


Details/Information about your suggestion:


I believe there need to be balance changes regarding the HP of both the Free runner and Thug. Free runners are given huge advantages over every other raiding job, that being their unrivaled mobility in both Vertical and Horizontal movement.


The stats

Free runners run at 350 u/s (125%), Thug runs at 235 u/s (80%), and other jobs: 280 u/s (100%).



Thug pays for it's additional 25HP by losing about 20% run speed and having an above average hitbox size which is move prevalent when facing towards or away from a player (the most common angels of an engagement). This overall decreases the usefulness of the extra 25HP as a thug takes more damage anyway thanks to the slower movement speeds and hitbox size.


Free runner

Free runners on the other hand get their speed for free. They still have 100HP, can equip armor, and use any type of weapon. The only downside to speak of is that they lockpick slightly slower than the thief and pro thief. Thats it, the only downside is the couple extra seconds of lockpicking. Not to mention the free runner model is smaller than average. So the free runner gets 25%+ speed for FREE and the additional bonus of a tiny hitbox.


Health vs Mobility - the TF2 & R6 example

Anyone paying attention can clearly see the discrepancy here in how under powered thug is and how overpowered free runner is without thinking about how Health vs Mobility plays out in game. Being faster is almost always more beneficial than being tankier. Let's consider too games Team Fortress 2 and Rainbow Six Siege. They are fundamentally different while both being shooters. TF2 is a quake shooter (No accuracy penalty for moving, No ADS, little strategy to think about) while R6 is a tactical shooter (Big accuracy penalty for moving and hipfire, use of stun and flash grenades, and somewhat realistic)

In both games, despite how different they are, speed is king. The scout from TF2 is the fastest class in the game with the minimum HP and despite this is one of the best classes in the game, being unrivaled in 1v1 duels and having a generally applicable role in the team. Anyone who plays TF2 knows how good scout is. R6 is a completely different kind of FPS and yet the same can be said for all the 3 Speed operators. Most of the meta in R6 is comprised of 3 Speeds just for their speed. Just like the scout from TF2 their speed doesn't come for free as being faster means you lose out on the 10% and 20% damage resistances every other operator gets.



R6 and TF2 are polar opposites within the FPS genre and yet they share that Health and Mobility share a trade off, you can't have both. This is Game design 101 and is something orbital lacks So I propose:


Free runner

+Remove the rule about basing and raiding with only free runners

+Normal lockpick speed

-HP reduced to 70-80

-Armor reduced to 90



+HP Increased to 140-150


Why these changes?

These changes would recognize the power imbalance created by having Speed and Health trade offs in game and seek to balance around them, as more is given health wise and more is sacrificed to move faster.

How do you think this will benefit the server?:


Free runners have always been a topic of debate and easily the most hated job in game. Attempting to balance them will create an overall funner experience game play wise. Drive more players to play thug and actually attempt to raid (free runner is always maxed with barely anyone on thug). It will also force free runner mains to engage their brains and think about how to play to their strengths instead of running around as a thief on meth.


Links: n/a

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Im going to disagree with this and here is why.

For starters being a free runner requires either a $11 payment to server or requires trusted which you need to apply for . Freerunners speed has almost no affect on raids as majority of the time you are crammed in a corridor with restricted movements when it comes to 2 or more people raiding , slower lockpicking means freerunners are more vulnerable in each section of someone's base. Freerunners speed boost is then used inside the base to move around quicker for the time lost lockpicking initial base doors & exiting as well as all valuable fading doors that need lockpicking.


Freerunners speed and vertical are not always positives for users playing that role , people struggle to use the climb swep even consistent users of this also mess up and in this case freerunners still take a good chunck of fall damage if not used correctly , setting this role to 70hp will leave the user little to no hp after any moderate to high fall.


Freerunners are a raid role they cant mug or steal on the streets like other roles can so having 100hp and 100 armor isnt affecting how they raid or defend a base because they are caught in the same situations every other raid role gets into limited space , trying not to die and stealing valuables within the same amount of time as other roles but with increased speed and slower lockpicking , vertical movements take almost no part in a raid unless the defender is silly enough not to put a roof over their defences , the only time speed both vertically and horizontally are powerful is getting away from police or hitman attempting to kill you and makes travelling the map a bit faster but as the name implies they are freerunners.

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Free runner is perfect how it is, its a limited role not just because of the 6 slot limit but also because it is a job role that requires donator or trusted, so why make the only raiding role that trusted unlock weak?

The speed only affects how fast they can get from point A to B the speed doesn't help in combat what so ever unless its a melee fight because you cant run and shoot and when free runners ADS their walk speed is the same as others.

If the lowered HP and amour is implement then the free runners will just get destroyed 9 times out of 10 because with or without the speed buff because the lowered max HP.

Your logic is completely floored on why you want the change of HP and Kevlar based on speed because all of the government roles except mayor can have almost 2x the amour of any other non government class with no debuff given except for the juggernauts speed so if you want to limit the max HP on free runners it would only make sense to lower the max speed of all government roles depending on their rank and the amount of HP and Kevlar they spawn with.

you say ''Free runners have always been a topic of debate and easily the most hated job in game'' but cops have always been a dominating role not only with the guns and set HP they spawn with and not to mention cops get everything half price in the PD but also their ability to put someone in a cage for up to 5m not even counting the time it takes the cop to escort the person to the pd.

If you really want a balanced server make the cops either weaker or slower based on the Kevlar and HP like you want to do with the free runners.

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I firmly disagree with this suggestion. I'll start off by pointing out that you've never made any other gameplay suggestions ANYWHERE, let alone one of this significance. This post appears to be an overreaction to personal failures as a juggernaut in recent fights against free runners, rather than a representation of community sentiment. Beyond that, here are additional points for thought:


- Comparing Gmod to dedicated FPS games is simply inaccurate as the hitboxes / hitreg in Gmod are vague at best (for all models)

- Free Runners cannot ADS or shoot while sprinting unlike the scout in TF2, therefore fast movement becomes a defensive tool unless the player closes the gap with a knife

- Free runners retain the same movement speed of other jobs in order to fire their weapon ( 180u/s )

- I don't think I've ever seen you play thug or free runner, so for you to dictate changes for players that do is LAUGHABLE


Regarding the Thug role however, I actually agree with the idea of a HP buff. Currently the Thug barely beats the HP of other jobs, being able to take one additional 25 dmg hit (AR bullet).


Thank you for reading

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On behalf of the Anti Freerunner Association (AFA) I would like to stand up for the oppressed and abused citizens of Orbital Servers. Free runners must be nerfed! Too long have police suffered from the baiters and hordes of free runners, constantly killing more innocent people each day. It is time, brothers, to put an end to this hypocrisy. Put an end to the years of unjust and unrest caused by these evil evil evil running fools. It is time, to make change.
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Also might I add that if the maximum Kevlar for free runners is 90 you would need to make a new set of Kevlar for free runners that only gives 90 because if we use normal Kevlar we miss out on the last 10% meaning each bit of Kevlar used wastes 1k and that adds up very quickly over time
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I believe speed should be decreased and health should be balanced to match the default citizen when you load in.


Also it is not necessary to put kevlar armor on freerunners by default due to if a PD player enters a confrontation it would take longer to kill (my personal opinion)


but I really dont mind because I don't personally play as a freelancer due to the job not being quite appealing to me

Edited by Ricky Bumpersech
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