reviewed Staff Incident Report

Your in-game name:

Roberto

Time of incident:

8 Jan 2022 - Between 9:30-10 pm NZDT

Staff member(s) you are reporting:

Howard Rice

Details of the incident:

Let us start from the start.

I logged on, equipped myself with the usual 2h weapon, (Fake) gun license, and armor. Had some bullshittery with some people before finding myself outside the PD with my 2h open carry. Howard Rice was situated upon the tower of his PD checkpoint, where he issued me with a /y warning to put it down. This was acceptable as I was in range to see it in chat, and switched to my crowbar to comply. He then issued me with a wanted status for open carry. This was questionable, but not the reason for this report (that can be discussed separately or not, I'm happy to leave that).

From here, something happened. I say "something" as I was not involved and do not know the details of it. All I know is that a demotion prompt came up for Howard with the reasoning being along the lines of "Incorrect arrest". I voted for yes, due to my previous encounter with him (which I may be wrong to do so, I'm not sure). The demotion was successful, and he was demoted and set to citizen.

From here, I again was not directly involved, but a player by the name of "change name or kick" was warned for "FailRP (False demotion)". I believe this is unacceptable and immoral. I was happy to discuss this in-game, however, I was informed that instead, I should make a staff report.

In the time we were discussing it in-game, Howard was seen to have said things along the lines of "cry about it" and other unprofessional statements.

I remember when I was staff, we were told not to deal with tickets that involved ourselves. Howard did not follow this and proceeded to be unkind in the OOC chat.

Any evidence (If Any):

All I have is a clip of my incident with Howard, which can be provided if necessary, however, most of what I have described can be found either in the logs or by all the other players in-game at the time who saw the events unfold.

Note:

I would like to clarify that I am making this report as to not cause OOC drama in-game, and still have the issue dealt with. I believe that the issue with "change name or kick" should also be relooked at, to ensure he had a fair chance. It could have been a minor verbal warning for all I know, but Howard could have easily had a biased opinion on the matter and had likely decided on the punishment before the sit started.

Thank you for your time,

Roberto.

Hello Roberto, thank you for making this, as it allows me to clear my name (hopefully). Now I don't think I was recording, which is unusual for me, but the incident you didn't see unplayed as follows: I walk into the PD, the door at the top of the stairs is unlocked, I walk in and see a hitman sitting there, give him my yell command and tell him to leave the area, He doesn't leave, and claims he is currently with a cop on the way to see the mayor, I look around the tiny room, I see no cop, and no cop claims this. I then arrest him. Then I believe it could have been anywhere between 2 - 5 minutes later, he starts a demote against me, claiming "incorrect arrest on me" or something like that.

Now I would have hoped one of the other staff members would have denied the demotion (which they can) due to that not being a valid reason for demotion. But they didn't, so I had to warn him for false demote, which i spoke to him about in the sit.

Now, onto your situation, (which i believe I was recording, but again I'm not sure). I was above you, and you were holding a gun out. From that high up, I cant see if you have a license or not for your 2 handed weapon, so I give you a yell command, you acknowledge me by looking up and putting your gun away and pulling out your keys. However, you proceed to pull out your crowbar. Due to you putting a weapon away, and then pulling out a weapon after a warning, this is grounds for an arrest due to Open carry. This is what we teach every single cop during probational training.

I hope this helps, cheers. (If you want my footage, just ask, ill have a look through but I'm not exactly sure when i started recording).

Hello Roberto, thank you for making this, as it allows me to clear my name (hopefully). Now I don't think I was recording, which is unusual for me, but the incident you didn't see unplayed as follows: I walk into the PD, the door at the top of the stairs is unlocked, I walk in and see a hitman sitting there, give him my yell command and tell him to leave the area, He doesn't leave, and claims he is currently with a cop on the way to see the mayor, I look around the tiny room, I see no cop, and no cop claims this. I then arrest him. Then I believe it could have been anywhere between 2 - 5 minutes later, he starts a demote against me, claiming "incorrect arrest on me" or something like that.

I have talked to the player involved (change name or kick - he says he may respond with his recollection of events) as well as another PD member (who would like to remain anonymous) who claims to have been there. Summing it up, both have said that he in fact was being escorted to the rehab clinic that was taking place at the time inside of the PD. He says despite his reasoning with you, you still made the arrest.

This is what prompted the demotion.

Now I would have hoped one of the other staff members would have denied the demotion (which they can) due to that not being a valid reason for demotion. But they didn't, so I had to warn him for false demote, which i spoke to him about in the sit.

You did not have to warn him, somebody else should have. You taking this sit was biased. The correct course of action would have been to send a message in staff chat and let someone else deal with it.

The player has stated that it felt like when he entered the sit, you had already decided on the punishment, and that you didn't give him a chance to talk about it, and instead just told him why you were giving it.

Now, onto your situation, (which i believe I was recording, but again I'm not sure). I was above you, and you were holding a gun out. From that high up, I cant see if you have a license or not for your 2 handed weapon, so I give you a yell command, you acknowledge me by looking up and putting your gun away and pulling out your keys. However, you proceed to pull out your crowbar. Due to you putting a weapon away, and then pulling out a weapon after a warning, this is grounds for an arrest due to Open carry. This is what we teach every single cop during probational training.

A crowbar is a melee weapon, open carry is a bit of a stretch.

If I had pulled out my fists would you have wanted me?? No, because that's stupid and is no threat to you. I abided by your warning to put away my 2h weapon which was licensed.

How should you know it was licensed?? Come and look. As a police officer, it is your place to follow through with an investigation of a possible illegal event occurring. You should have come down from the tower and checked whether my gun was licensed.

If my 2h weapon was not licensed, you would have been the officer who let me run around with an unlicensed weapon, possibly leading to casualties.

Hello,

I am the player in question (change name or kick). At the time I was arrested I was being escorted by the officer named Samurai Rice. He let me into the police only area of the station however I got stuck in this tiny room between the lobby and first floor. I was then met by Howard Rice who instructed me to leave the police station. I told him that I was being escorted by a police officer and that I was stuck. He then arrested me. This all happened in a matter of seconds. I then started a demote player vote with the reason being "illegally detained". After this vote went through, I was immediately teleported to a staff only room in which he stated that a false demotion could result in a ban. I then repeated that I was wrongfully arrested as I was under the escort of another officer. He then warned me without teleporting the officer in question. I wasn't recording the incident, however, I believe if the officer who was escorting me inside the police would back me up. I hope this helps, cheers.

I have talked to the player involved (change name or kick - he says he may respond with his recollection of events) as well as another PD member (who would like to remain anonymous) who claims to have been there. Summing it up, both have said that he in fact was being escorted to the rehab clinic that was taking place at the time inside of the PD. He says despite his reasoning with you, you still made the arrest.

This is what prompted the demotion.

Unless I am mistaken, I am 100% certain, the Rehab clinic is downstairs in the courtroom, He was not in any area near the courtroom. Also, he was in no area to be escorted to the rehab, as he either came from outside the PD or the jail cells, so this doesn't make sense. And also, he stated he was being escorted in to see the mayor, so what's that about? And finally, as a cop, I would have been demoted if I just let someone into the PD, or even remain in the PD without cuffs on ( he should have had cuffs on if he was being escorted, I'm SWAT HC, you would hope I would know how to handle this).

You did not have to warn him, somebody else should have. You taking this sit was biased. The correct course of action would have been to send a message in staff chat and let someone else deal with it.

The player has stated that it felt like when he entered the sit, you had already decided on the punishment, and that you didn't give him a chance to talk about it, and instead just told him why you were giving it.

1. I brought him to a sit, explained to him what he did wrong, I checked his warns, and his verbal warns, noticed he had recent verbal for fail RP ( I think it was from earlier today), due to this I escalated to a full warn. I did accidentally mis-read something and told him he was going to be getting a ban, but I instantly corrected myself and just said it was a warn.

2. Am I not able to handle a simple demote against me? Like how hard is it? I have been taught what valid reasons of demote are, and what arent, so how could the situation have ended any differently if another member of staff handled it? And yes, I understand that I should let other staff handle situations against me, but I didn't wanna waste Joe's time. (I think it was Joe).

A crowbar is a melee weapon, open carry is a bit of a stretch.

If I had pulled out my fists would you have wanted me?? No, because that's stupid and is no threat to you. I abided by your warning to put away my 2h weapon which was licensed.

How should you know it was licensed?? Come and look. As a police officer, it is your place to follow through with an investigation of a possible illegal event occurring. You should have come down from the tower and checked whether my gun was licensed.

If my 2h weapon was not licensed, you would have been the officer who let me run around with an unlicensed weapon, possibly leading to casualties.

As I stated before, every cop is taught exactly that, If someone has a weapon out, and you give them a warning to put it away, and they do. If they pull out a weapon again within 2 minutes, you may arrest them for open carry.

Anything else, let me know, cheers.

(Edit: grammar)

Hello,

I am the player in question (change name or kick). At the time I was arrested I was being escorted by the officer named Samurai Rice. He let me into the police only area of the station however I got stuck in this tiny room between the lobby and first floor. I was then met by Howard Rice who instructed me to leave the police station. I told him that I was being escorted by a police officer and that I was stuck. He then arrested me. This all happened in a matter of seconds. I then started a demote player vote with the reason being "illegally detained". After this vote went through, I was immediately teleported to a staff only room in which he stated that a false demotion could result in a ban. I then repeated that I was wrongfully arrested as I was under the escort of another officer. He then warned me without teleporting the officer in question. I wasn't recording the incident, however, I believe if the officer who was escorting me inside the police would back me up. I hope this helps, cheers.

I mistakenly stated you were receiving a ban, due to me not being able read giant orange words, I apoligsed then, and I apologise again now. I did immediately corrected myself.

Unless I am mistaken, I am 100% certain, the Rehab clinic is downstairs in the courtroom, He was not in any area near the courtroom. Also, he was in no area to be escorted to the rehab, as he either came from outside the PD or the jail cells, so this doesn't make sense. And also, he stated he was being escorted in to see the mayor, so what's that about? And finally, as a cop, I would have been demoted if I just let someone into the PD, or even remain in the PD without cuffs on ( he should have had cuffs on if he was being escorted, I'm SWAT HC, you would hope I would know how to handle this).

I can't speak much more on this matter as I was not there, but his recollection of events is above.

1. I brought him to a sit, explained to him what he did wrong, I checked his warns, and his verbal warns, noticed he had recent verbal for fail RP ( I think it was from earlier today), due to this I escalated to a full warn. I did accidentally mis-read something and told him he was going to be getting a ban, but I instantly corrected myself and just said it was a warn.

 

2. Am I not able to handle a simple demote against me? Like how hard is it? I have been taught what valid reasons of demote are, and what arent, so how could the situation have ended any differently if another member of staff handled it? And yes, I understand that I should let other staff handle situations against me, but I didn't wanna waste Joe's time. (I think it was Joe).

1. Again, I was not there, however the player stated that he tried to explain his reasoning for the demotion and that you basically ignored him and just warned him anyway. It would have been nice of you to explain why it was an incorrect demotion as he believed that incorrect arrest was grounds for a demotion (Which I agree, RDA is not a viable cause for demotions).

2. Answering your questions in order:

No.

Depends on a variety of factors.

Any possible bias, another staff member could have possibly decided that a warning was too harsh and that a strong verbal and explanation could have helped the player more to understand the rules further, as well as learn from their mistakes.

Joe wasn't the only staff member on, there were four or five at the time.

As I stated before, every cop is taught exactly that, If someone has a weapon out, and you give them a warning to put it away, and they do. If they pull out a weapon again within 2 minutes, you may arrest them for open carry.

So what you're saying is that holding my fists out is open carrying as it is a weapon?

A melee weapon is treated entirely differently from a projectile weapon. Simply: My crowbar cannot shoot. It will not hurt you from a distance. This means that I should be allowed to hold it out.

 

So what you're saying is that holding my fists out is open carrying as it is a weapon?

A melee weapon is treated entirely differently from a projectile weapon. Simply: My crowbar cannot shoot. It will not hurt you from a distance. This means that I should be allowed to hold it out.

You are an ex-commissioner, the fact you do not understand this is terrifying, as this is not any new or revolutionary rule.

Due to this I no longer wish to discuss with you, I will now await a response from my supervisors.

as an ex staff member and ex commissioner could know how poor it is to report something you aren't involved in, people are told all the time and I've been told by you before don't report thing you aren't involved in.

Say that again, but slowly...

Edit: Also I became involved after discussion in OOC chat at the time, I also did this on behalf of the victim as they did not have a forums account at the time.

Under pd rules a crowbar is considered a 2h weapon like a knife, you should know this like Howard said

As stated in the probational trainer guide (which I believe Howard has also quoted): "Melee weapons (fists, knife, crowbar)". According to this and some common sense, a crowbar is not considered 2h, also refer to TMP, you hold it with one hand in third person - therefore it is classed as one-handed. It is the same with the crowbar.

Also, I would like to request where you have found that it states that a crowbar is a 2h weapon, as I may change my opinion on the matter, or simply request the document for reevaluation.

It's still open carry no matter what hand weapon it is

Gotcha. I'll just have to be more sneaky when I'm using my fists

It's still open carry no matter what hand weapon it is

As this is becoming a pattern with this report. Please stop commenting things that staff can say or what the other party can respond with. I have seen like 4 deleted comments of yours on this report. Its not your report and its not targeted towards you. So please stop placing comments on this report otherwise action will be taken against you.

Thanks

FrostyBoi